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Streaming vs copyrights explanation article

Ilovepython

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Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« on: July 07, 2017, 08:24:29 am »
Hi have found this detailed article that explain very well streaming vs copyrights

It will help you to understand the situation

https://www.patentable.com/can-stream-way-around-copyright-infringement-canada/

Thanks

Buzz Marshall

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 01:34:06 pm »
good post...

I can't speak regarding US policies but here in Canada the cable providers and satellite providers have been pushing the CRTC to update the regulations to be more clear cut and grant them more conclusive protection for the last couple of years now and its being done without a lot of knowlege let alone objections from the public... thats they way things have always been as the government up here has always been about creating a protected environment for the providers up here without any real competition... Canada is a strange country when it comes to protectionism of its media industry's because of the CanCon amendments which are basically content rules then ensure canadian produced content is the bulk of what the providers are selling you... thats what has allowed company's like Bell and Rogers to basically rape the canadian public with outrageous rates for considerably less value and content when compared to the bigger providers that operate within the boundaries of our friends to the south...  Those content rules are why we Canadians can never legally have services from Dish Network or DirectTV and even Netflix up here have to come from a Canada Netflix Datacenter which has considerably less content then their main US content delivery setup...

Bell and Rogers have been pushing for the last couple of years for the changes they want to see so its been going on for a while now...and theres not a lot of push back from the public as a lot of it goes on behind the scenes until the changes are agreed on and put into affect...

nice post tho as it gives people at least a decent idea of the confusing status of things up here...

Keep in mind tho the current tva/zem questions are over a much more clearly defined issue as Dish's complaint isn't about the legality of streaming its about Zem streaming content that was Exclusively licenced to Dish Network which technically gives them control over it...

Trying to find a argument to defend themselves over Dish's complaint will be a different animal... and Zem ignoring repeated requests to stop isnt going to help them either... Tva on the other hand may be able to make a argument depending on the timing of when they made the effort to disassociate themselves, but on the other side if its shown they are key partners behind the creation and ownership of offshoregit which i am sure Dish sees as a harboring point they will do what they can to set the stage to scare off others because thats a tactic they have been known to use in the past... thats probably why some other developers have kinda stepped back outta the public till they can see what way the ball is going to bounce...

EdT

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 06:04:17 pm »
F the CRTC, Bell and the cable companies !   middle finger

devpythonpro

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 01:38:41 pm »
All this article mean it is that streaming is legal even if you watch copyrighted content like an American movie

By Example Exodus is legal in Canada !

Buzz Marshall

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 06:10:38 pm »
i would disagree... even tho the article is informative its based on clips taken somewhat out of context and presented on a website of a legal company that has a vested interest in the subject... the 2 box sellers presented in the article are a couple of canada's largest box retailers who have always insisted streaming is legal... the article is a interesting read and helps bring attention to how streaming works and where the debates sit...

Up till now a lot of the sellers stand behind the argument that because company's like Netflix or the cable and satellite companies use content delivery systems that don't allow data retention that using a Android box with a plug-in like Exodus is the same... thats like trying to compare apples to oranges tho as they are not the same... personally i see it as just a way some dealers trying to justify his ability to make his bux while in noway setting any real legal precedent...

Something like Exodus is not anywhere in same vein as how those systems work... those companies actually do license the media they make available where as Exodus is delivering a fare amount of digitally protected or licensed media without the Licensee's consent which i seriously doubt anyone will be able to legally defend... Assuming your right tho, then why did Zem's providers repeatedly remove his content when Dish requested to do so... most providers don't just cave in without reasonable reasons or a court order...

Canada's a unique situation as compared to other places in the world as here we have another layer of law that any one wanting to provide content with in Canada must meet and be approved by the CRTC which we all know none of these plug-in writers are... That article doesn't even present that issue to the public and its a huge part of Canadian law...

Rather then debate the streaming issue for now lets just talk about the CRTC and CanCon because if or when the streaming debate ever gets settled this stuff will still sit higher up the legal tree in the end anyways...

I've spent a huge part of my life in the Canadian Media Industry in one form or another and i can tell you that when it comes to weird rules Canada's content rules are some of the strangest as they are designed to isolate and protect Canadian artists by dictating to the providers how much Non-Canadian to Canadian media can be made available in the service they intent to provide within Canada...media up here means everything from the video industry to the print industry's and anything else thats deemed media...

Lets use the Satellite services up here as an example because it at one point in time was a wide open play land for movies and content just like the current Kodi and plug-ins solution is currently delivering... Most of the sat hacks back in the day stemmed from up here because of the grey market rulings which stopped the legal owners from suing anyone on Canadian soil and it went on for many years... eventually tho the providers up here got the laws changed and the grey market was no more and they started to legally go after everyone till they had control... Bell tho learned alot from the mess and got wise and used CanCon to its advantage and went to Echostar and contracted their own system which is based on Canada and does meet the content rules so the CRTC approved the service...Its called ExpressVU...

Its because of CanCon that No one within Canada's footprint can legally subscribe to or view services like DirectTV or Dishnet which give you better value for your bux ... neither one is approved by the CRTC's and main reason is because they will not honor the Content rules which were set at 75% Canadian to 25% Non-Canadian content in their service, there has been some talk of the CRTC altering the percentages...

So when it comes to Canada and operating within it theres more to this then just the typical Streaming debate thats going on in a lot of other places around the world...

Don't take my word tho just call up someone at the CRTC and tell them you want to rebroadcast or stream mainstream movies or tv shows without permission from whoever has currently licensed what you want stream and see what they say... lol...

Besides lets not be naive... if what you say is correct why are developers hiding? these types of plug-ins have even forced the Kodi Organization itself to distance itself over the issue... Tva managed take advantage and to build up the whole offshore idea on the premise of giving the developers a safe place to distribute from while Tva turned things into a revenue stream for themselves, so if what your saying is correct why would anyone go to that much trouble... people are hiding for reasons, so lets not confuse wishful thinking with reality...

Personally i hate the way the providers here have been granted legal right to basically rape the Canadian users and I have no problem with streaming but i also see the changes that are going to come because of the amount of money it represents to the main players up here while they slobber over more revenue streams... Its only a matter of time before they get what they want as the government and regulating organizations are already in their pockets...

The reason i keep harping on the subject whenever i see a post is because theres still enough time for people to rethink the way things are currently done and find a better way of protecting the developers while still allowing everyone to get what they need, but it means things have to be done with a lot more thought... ya know, once there were literally thousands of web forums on satellites till one by one they got taken over and were gone and now unless one goes back to uucp or the darknet theres no place to even talk about hacks...

Anyways sorry if i sound like i am attacking you as thats not my intent... i just want to see a lot more of these types of conversations start to take place while things are still pretty good...

Sara5dawn

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 07:03:24 pm »
Just my two cents on this topic 
First of all the cable and satellite providers are all rip offs! They charge over $30 just to watch network TV ie: ACB, NBC,CBS and FOX!  Which btw was once FREE! 
Second you have to pay for a bunch of useless channels that you may never watch! 
Third HBO, Showtime, Stars and Cinemax all show the same movies repeatedly! 
Fourth if you go with what they call the best deal/package you have to commit to two years and you're still screwed because you will get 200 channels with over 100 of them being infomercial channels! 
 
Let's not forget about Netflix, Hulu, Sling TV and the worst one of all Amazon Prime Video the biggest IMO rip off of the bunch! 
 
Sure you can subscribe to these but they add what they wanna add when they wanna add it. You can't watch a show the day it airs, however you can watch it the next day! Yet these are all streaming services. Amazon prime is by far the worst of them all you pay for a subscription but if you wanna watch a show that is not included or maybe the show is 5 years old they charge $1.99 per episode!!  
Vudu will charge $9.99 - 14.99 to watch a movie that is 10 years old simply because it was a hit at the box office. 
 
Copyright infringement is a bunch of crap!!! 
Bottom line it's all about GREED!! 
 
A big shout out to Kodi and all the fantastic developers for all their hard work. They developed a way for people like myself to say screw you to these companies and enjoy TV and movies without robbing us blind! 

And that's my 2 cents!!!
 

Buzz Marshall

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 09:43:42 pm »
I agree 100% with what your saying... everybody here in North America is looking for cheap or free media and its a market that always grows...

The pattern always starts with a small group of people that like to play and create stuff for themselves that eventually gets into public domain where anyone can become a dealer pushing boxes with claims of freetv with basically no knowledge until its once again become the wild west... then the Corporate dumb asses based on what they see as huge market and revenue stream they are missing out on start to clamp down...

Dumb asses don't seem to understand that what they think they are missing out on is customers that they either had and lost or would have never migrated to their services anyways in a lot of cases...  they just don't seem to get the fact that if they weren't raping their customers (specially here in Canada) people probably wouldn't bother with the effort trying to find ways around it... Even money hackers don't really start anything, they just come along after they see the money in a bigger market... its always the small guys and usually for non-monetary reasons that create stuff and get the ball rolling... even Kodi which was xbmp or xmbc around 2003 started out with the melding of a couple individual developers...

the real problem here isn't the providers as what they are doing is predictable,  its more embedded by being overrun with dealers pushing boxes without having to know very much about what they are selling... its easy to see for anyone thats been around kodi and the box market since the beginning... back then most wouldn't pay any attention to the Android boxes as there wasn't much real interest in it as a main source of streaming media... but over time as various good programmers and hobby types started creating real plug-ins that could get the user media in the same league as the providers started releasing stuff the dealer types used it to their advantage still without having to really know much

EdT

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 11:39:55 pm »
Streaming is actually not illegal in Canada, as of right now it is in a gray zone.  Torrent is illegal as the user downloads the entire content to distribute.  Where they should be getting to is the illegal IPTV services that are making a lot of the money with paid subscriptions ! VMedia lost the case earlier this year with providing an app that included OTA live TV broadcasts,  their argument was since it is over the air channels why is it illegal as anyone can catch it for free on their TV sets.  The moral of the story is these large corporations have the financial and legal resources to go to court either they are right or wrong just to bankrupt/bully the little guy ...Business 101, when in doubt sue they benefit no matter what the outcome is !

I am no friend of Netflix or Android TV as well, these freaking scumbags only provide licenses to a small handful of box makers that can stream their content in HD ...WTF as if paying for their subscription is not enough they force you to buy an overpriced media player box from maker that they are in bed with !

So if you lend a titled DVD to a friend or family member would be considered illegal as well,  good luck with them trying to catch that ! ...LoL
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 11:57:34 pm by EdT »

K4Me

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 12:06:01 am »
So if you lend a titled DVD to a friend or family member would be considered illegal as well,  good luck with them trying to catch that ! ...LoL
How about the lending of movies and box sets from public libraries?

EdT

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 12:16:55 am »
So if you lend a titled DVD to a friend or family member would be considered illegal as well,  good luck with them trying to catch that ! ...LoL
How about the lending of movies and box sets from public libraries?

I know public libraries lend out titled DVDs, but I don't know if they know they are breaking the law as well unless they paid for a corporate licen$e when they bought the DVD which I doubt.  So is lending out the books which bring it back full circle on the legal existence of public libraries !  ...LoL
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:18:52 am by EdT »

Buzz Marshall

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 09:43:04 pm »
libraries are a bit different because of licensing, but sometimes they pay as well, but normally a library is kinda a public non-monetary thing its treated different...

personal copies of anything are legal if your the owner of the media in the 1st place is ok usually meaning one "backup" copy...

lending i don't recall much being done about it as it extremely hard to prove, but renting is not allowed as there are special rules in the regulations for them, like for example the old video or games stores had to pay a different rate when buying the goods they were going to rent as well as were they could buy them from... a lot of the audio places like the beat goes on work on a swap/buy type of setup which falls under the ability of the license to transfer to the new owner...

money's always the driving force in when the providers decide to start to harass people... which again is the case here... years ago prior to plug-ins like exodus existing you couldn't give a Android box away for the purposes of streaming media.... now were to the point where even the corner variety store is selling boxes with huge advertising signs boasting of "never pay cable again" or "free tv or ppv sports"... thats whats started the ball down the hill... Rogers and Bell because they run in a protective environment here under the CanCon rules see all this marketing crap and think they're loosing revenue so they start lobbying the CRTC...

think of this...the satellite grey market which actually allowed brick and mortar public stores with dudes making a living selling hacks to the US services was around for over 10 years here in Canada but once Bell figured they were loosing out on money it took less then 3 years before the grey market was gone and they had new laws on the books which allowed them to tie dealers up for years at a time in court and then end with rediculous amounts of money till it settled to what its now become... and what started it.... FTA with everyone and anybody selling units the same way things are now with Android boxes...

I agree about the IPTV subscription thing and theres already legislation moving through to deal with it but theres already been cases of the providers notifying the CRTC about companies offering those services because under CanCon theres no question of it being illegal because they are offering content from outside what the regulations allow... Theres been a couple of closures here since xmas of companies offering IPTV mostly to the asian market... basically they were harassed and just decided to close up rather then sit in the pipe waiting to litigate something way down the road with not much future of wining because by the time they get into the courtroom the grey market will be something from history once again...

Don't get me wrong as i hate the media providers here in Canada and the way they operate... i'm just saying things aren't as grey as they were this time last year and things won't get any better moving forward... i've a couple of lawyer buds that work on copyright and artist contract stuff and i no they would both argue that your wrong about it being legal as 'grey' doesn't mean legal... it just means no ones tested the case all the way up the tree but they say theres already cases currently working their ways through the system...

I to am a bit of a dreamer and argue with them all the time over this crap and in the end they end just kinda putting it like this to me.... honestly... who you think the gov and courts will side with... a bunch of hackers and freetv dudes or a couple of Canada's riches companies... lol... i don't mind arguing about stuff but even i can see the logic to what they say... and it sucks...

Other then things going up and down a lot more then what people are used to i don't think much will happen to anyone other then the plug-in creators and the distribution site owner that will be the targets...

anyways it will be interesting to see what happens next...

EdT

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 02:48:30 am »
Moral of the story is that if the government can make a cut even prostitution would be legal now !
Look at the debate about marijuana,  it's all about money and how much a cut the feds can pocket !
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 02:50:07 am by EdT »

Buzz Marshall

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 04:19:09 pm »
lol... ya you hit the nail on the head with that one... how else could a country the size of Canada with a population of about 35 million have comparable living standards to a country like the USA which is about 321 million... is by gouging us Canadians at every turn of the screw... hahah

EdT

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 08:31:00 pm »
Governments actually take your tax dollars to play the stock market and in a bad year in which they loose they will increase your taxes.  This is like using your money to play poker and if they loose they come back asking for more !

I never voted for any of our governments to invade foreign countries to appease US's foreign policy !
I never voted for my municipal government to build bike paths !
I never voted for my municipal government to build a new sport arena !
I never voted for my municipal government to build a new public library that dishes out iPads like if they were free !
I voted to stopping taxes and buy everything out of country so these MF will not have a sense of entitlement on our tax dollars !

As if their $167,000 tax free salaries and life time pensions are not enough, they think they also have a sense of entitlement on our expense ...absolutely drives me up the wall !
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 08:33:33 pm by EdT »

Buzz Marshall

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Re: Streaming vs copyrights explanation article
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 06:34:07 pm »
Normally i'd not waste my time and leave it up to dudes to do their own work but because of the importance of the possibility of a huge change in the future i will post a few of the details of a actual federal court ruling thats CURRENTLY in effect here in Canada...

Anyways the point being is this is not a grey area anymore (at least until a actual court date and out come take place) as the Federal has granted a Injunction prohibiting the sale of pre-configured boxes and upheld it in the Court of Appeals until the issue can be resolved in Court...

Original Case...
http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/180956/index.do?r=AAAAAQAJTVRMRlJFRVRWAQ

Appeal...
http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fca-caf/decisions/en/item/229063/index.do?r=AAAAAQAJTVRMRlJFRVRWAQ

Overall this means that the current Injunction is targeted at a few named targets but the courts left that list open to revisement by the Plaintiffs... meaning if someone (dealer, developer) wants to make themselves a target they could be added by Bell or Roger's or any of the other Plaintiff's if they want to...

Normal Users i Don't think have anything to worry about at this point in time, but for Dealers and the Creators of the enabling plug-ins things are going to change going forward...

I post this not to enable supposed "Scare Tactics" as this is real and no matter what any of our personal opinions or thoughts are, these are Real Canadian Federal Court Records on file and the Plaintiffs are spending real money on pursuing this...

On another note in light of the last weeks transfer of tva's zone records to a lawyer (who just happened to work for a previous company that Bell has used in the Past) i would make sure that any of the old addons have all of TVA's update info removed and get rid of their maintainance appz as they present a open risk if for whatever reasons the old sites go active...